Instigator / Pro

Owen_T

1465

rating

debates

59.68%

won

Topic

#5503

Donald Trump is Responsible for the January 6th Capital Riot

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Winner

After not so many votes...

It's a tie!

Tags

Donald Trump

Parameters

Publication date: 06.05.2024 11:31PM
Last updated date: 06.23.2024 01:05AM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 3
Time for argument: Two days
Max argument characters: 9,000
Voting period: One week
Point system: Winner selection
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

Mall

1420

rating

398

debates

44.1%

won

Description

I've heard some theories concerning what went down on January 6th. I believe that January 6th was an attack which Trump is responsible for, but if you have a different view, I would love to hear it. You either need to debate that someone else is responsible, or that it was a beautiful protest, as Trump claims.

Round 1

Owen_T

06.06.2024 11:06PM

Pro

Donald Trump claims that January 6th was not actually that bad, that it was in fact, a beautiful day. He says he should not even be held responsible, as nothing in his speech was promoting violence. While that may be true, other parts of the speech and his actions make it obvious that he is the one to blame. He told his supporters that they needed to "fight like hell" and thanked them for chanting the words "fight for trump." While he didn't explicitly tell his supporters to riot, that's what his words led to, which makes him responsible.

Not only is he responsible for it, but he also enjoyed the events taking place. 187 minutes! That's how long it took him to call for peace. Trump watched passively as his supported stormed the capital, beat police officers, and chanted for the hanging of Mike Pence. Trump at any moment could have told them to go home. He could have told them to before five people lost their lives, and 140 officers were injured. He could have prevented it. Yet instead of calling for peace, he added fuel to the fire by tweeting how Mike Pence enabled a fraudulent election. Trump knew that this would enrage his followers and enrage them it did. Trump knew, and yet he tweeted it any ways.

Trump now states that what happened wasn't actually bad at all. That it was on the contrary. That it was a wonderful day where people exercised the first amendment in the name of democracy. However, the protests were anything but peaceful. As I have mentioned before, five people died and 140 officers reported injuries. Trump's followers smashed through doors and windows and broke through a police barricade to enter the capital. There is absolutely no question has to whether or not this was a peaceful protest.

Trump is not only responsible for the events of the capital riot, but he allowed them to happen knowingly. When an angry mob is waving flags with your name as well as chanting it, you're probably why they're there.

Mall

06.06.2024 11:56PM

Con

Thank you, thank you readers.

"He says he should not even be held responsible"

That is correct logically speaking. He is not responsible because the ones that actually done the action are .

The following is according to Wikipedia article:

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Ja...

January 6 United States Capitol attack - Wikipedia

"As Congress began the electoral vote count, thousands of attendees, some armed, walked to the Capitol, with hundreds breaching police perimeters. Among the rioters were leaders of the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers militia groups, who conspired to use violence and interfere with the peaceful transfer of power."

So these individuals were responsible for the stunt and that's really that.

"Trump is not only responsible for the events of the capital riot, but he allowed them to happen knowingly. When an angry mob is waving flags with your name as well as chanting it, you're probably why they're there. "

I can say what I want as an adult. You can do what you will as an adult. You as an adult is responsible for your own actions.

Not withstanding me holding a proverbial or literally gun to your head. When you talk about "allow", what power does one have over a multitude that such a group can take that one out?

The only ones expected to not allow an unlawful attack are the authorities. Instead of taking the blame off the actual perpetuators to look at one person you personally despise , cut the bias and appropriate proper culpability.

Round 2

Owen_T

06.07.2024 01:04AM

Pro

You are absolutely right. The people who stormed the capital should be held responsible for their individual actions. However, that still does not make Trump not responsible for the events that occurred.

Trump is responsible for the people being there in the first place. Without him, nobody would have gone to storm the capital. The Cambridge Dictionary, which we can agree is reliable, defines responsible as "to be the person who has caused something to happen, especially something bad." Trump was the person who, while didn't riot himself, caused the riot to happen. On just that alone Trump is responsible for the insurrection.

RESPONSIBLE | English meaning - Cambridge Dictionary

"The only ones expected to not allow an unlawful attack are the authorities."

Trump is responsible for the own mess he created. If someone commits a crime for someone else, both parties are responsible for it. Trump had the power to prevent it from happening and is therefore also responsible through inaction. Trump did have the power to prevent it. Those were his people. People who were there for him. They left when he told them to, three hours late.

Trump caused it to happen, and could have ended it, but he didn't. Trump is at fault for the terrible events of January 6th.

Mall

06.08.2024 05:13PM

Con

A person that told another to go down to cause a riot, they're responsible for his or her own conspiracy and plotting.

But those that committed the actual riots are responsible only. As they're adults that decided to do such a thing.

As far as stopping the activity, that's the responsibility of the police or authority. A president is not a police officer.

If police officers did not act , why would anyone else?

They are the first ones to make the judgement call.

People may disagree with a presidential policy or many and just make that person culpable for everything illogically.

Topic says "Donald Trump is Responsible for the January 6th Capital Riot".

No those that did the riot are. Now if you want to say this person is to blame for conspiracy, sure based on evidence of course. But that's not in the topic.

The adults that decided to do that are accountable. The same adults that decided not to stop, cease and desist and allowed themselves to do what they did are accountable.

Round 3

Owen_T

06.08.2024 06:30PM

Pro

"As far as stopping the activity, that's the responsibility of the police or authority. A president is not a police officer.

If police officers did not act , why would anyone else?

They are the first ones to make the judgement call."

It was not his duty to stop it, but he could of, which makes him responsible through inaction. Whether or not he was supposed to is irrelevant.

"A person that told another to go down to cause a riot, they're responsible for his or her own conspiracy and plotting.

But those that committed the actual riots are responsible only. As they're adults that decided to do such a thing."

"Topic says "Donald Trump is Responsible for the January 6th Capital Riot".

No those that did the riot are. Now if you want to say this person is to blame for conspiracy, sure based on evidence of course. But that's not in the topic.

The adults that decided to do that are accountable. The same adults that decided not to stop, cease and desist and allowed themselves to do what they did are accountable."

I have also already gone over this in my last argument, and I see no point in writing it all over again, so the following is from my last round.

"Trump is responsible for the people being there in the first place. Without him, nobody would have gone to storm the capital. The Cambridge Dictionary, which we can agree is reliable, defines responsible as "to be the person who has caused something to happen, especially something bad." Trump was the person who, while didn't riot himself, caused the riot to happen. On just that alone Trump is responsible for the insurrection.

RESPONSIBLE | English meaning - Cambridge Dictionary"

Is Trump responsible for January 6th? In all measures, yes, he is. If it wasn't for him, it wouldn't have happened. The answer is that simple.

Mall

06.09.2024 10:09PM

Con

"It was not his duty to stop it, but he could of, which makes him responsible through inaction. Whether or not he was supposed to is irrelevant."

By this logic we all that could of stopped this made us all responsible for what happened. Which really wouldn't make sense especially to those whom have no knowledge of this.

Being that you say it is irrelevant that somebody is supposed to do something, you're not saying that somebody is supposed to. So without having a duty and being supposed to do anything negates any responsibility of that thing. You've negated it all.

That's what makes one responsible or has a responsibility is having a duty.

By this logic, everyone that doesn't have a duty of something is still responsible.

No no no.

Please only place the responsibility on those that are supposed to respond to their duty. This keeps everything consistent, organized, neat and not sloppy and not incongruent.

"I have also already gone over this in my last argument, and I see no point in writing it all over again, so the following is from my last round. "

This means you couldn't counter any better but just repeat yourself.

You can say Mr. Trump is responsible for something he didn't do but it wouldn't be honest.

"Is Trump responsible for January 6th? In all measures, yes, he is. If it wasn't for him, it wouldn't have happened. The answer is that simple. "

This is pretty much saying that the adults that decided to do the act weren't adults of their own volition.

This is just shifting the blame of a direct act . So people that can't get a job, blame it on a politician.

Where I live, blame it on a politician. I couldn't get a house, blame it on somebody else. Just shifting the blame instead of the individuals that's supposed to make their own judgements on the actions they take in the end taking responsibility .

A politician or whoever can say all he or she wants. If I decide to act or not , it's on me. You're going to blame someone else for my behavior, no , no, no.

If those that did riot didn't riot, the riot that did take place wouldn't of happened.

We have to get cause and effect in correct order.

The opposing side is saying that Mr. Trump is the cause. This would only be true if the adults that rioted were unable to decide to act.

By them being able to make the judgement call, the actual cause is of the judgement call made by those adults unless they were puppets or androids.

The actual cause of the riot was the judgment call made by those rioters , not Mr. Trump.

Case closed.

Owen_T

06.23.2024 01:05AM

Yes, if you would be willing to I would appreciate that.

I couldn't mention you for whatever reason

WyIted

06.22.2024 08:49PM

Now that I read it, I don't know. I guess my advice could be useful.but if it is going to be ignored I wouldn't want to waste my time writing any critiques of the arguments

WyIted

06.22.2024 08:40PM

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@Owen_T

Do you want me to place a vote on this although it will not effect the official results?

Owen_T

06.09.2024 10:55PM

When a mob is literally chanting your name, I think it doesn't qualify as just "kicking blame around."

Sure, you were looking at what was logically sound, but you weren't actually answering the question.

Mall

06.09.2024 10:11PM

Instead of just reading dictionaries, look at what is logically sound.

Each responsible individual takes responsibility for his or her own action.

Society encourages not to kick the blame around. But when it comes to a disagreeable politician, you drop that principle.

Barney

06.05.2024 11:32PM

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@Owen_T

Certainly at fault, but he will take no responsibility 🤣