Instigator / Pro
1
1420
rating
398
debates
44.1%
won
Topic
#5482
The 9-5 job is modern day slavery.
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
Winner
1
0
After 1 vote and with 1 point ahead, the winner is...
Mall
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 5
- Time for argument
- One week
- Max argument characters
- 30,000
- Voting period
- One month
- Point system
- Winner selection
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Con
0
1500
rating
2
debates
0.0%
won
Description
Disclaimer : Regardless of the setup for voting win or lose, The aim of this interaction, Is for those that view it, Learn and or take away anything that will amount to any constructive value ultimately. So that counts as anything that'll cause one to reconsider an idea, Understand a subject better, Help build a greater wealth of knowledge getting closer to truth. When either of us has accomplished that with any individual here, That's who the victor of the debate becomes.
Questions on the topic, send a message.
Round 1
Round 2
Pro
#3
Ok, we do have newcomers that take on these topics initially but then become "no shows" so let's give it a try.
Basically the 9-5 wage labor industry is a system in which some cases occupies the lives of individuals in the overtime sector.
Taking more control of individual lives mandating work as without this obligation, you cannot fulfill your obligation to the monetary prison system that enables you to live.
That's why it's called "work for a living". You have to work, be obligated , enslaved to work to live.
If you don't work, you don't eat as the biblical scripture teaches. If you don't work, you don't live.
So you are obligated to work to live. That's all slavery is in nature. Obligation. You have debt slavery, monetary enslavement and slave labor.
Now there are those that have apparently broken out of this prison in route to the wilderness.
They too have to still work to eat. They have managed to escape the monetary prison. But their obligations to utilize resources more so than back when they first started a 9 to 5 is the reality.
Basically in a nutshell how the 9 to 5 is modern day slavery.
Common objections :
I can just quit a 9 to 5 job.
How am I enslaved to it?
There's no penalty or consequence for refusing to work.
I have the "freedom" to refuse to work.
What about when the time comes to get off work, quitting time as they say?
How about vacation, holiday time and "requested" time off?
How about a leave of absence or calling off?
Aren't I free then?
Don't I have freedom period?
Nobody owns me.
Maybe uncommon objections:
Who is my master?
What is my master?
A slave is in chains and shackles.
I'm not a prisoner.
I could go on and on perhaps. The rebuttals will be coming. That's all for now. This is just an introduction.
When you really see things for what they are on a grand scale in which you have to think outside the box, you'll see what I'm talking about. I believe many in the comments already concur.
Which is not to often as there are many conventional thinkers on here.
Con
#4
It is very unwise of you to deny currently employed wage labor system especially the 9 to 5 jobs as slavery. Let’s address each of your points directly:Let’s address each of your points directly:
Basic Argument:
The 9-5 wage labor industry is a system of some cases dominating the lives of people in the overtime sector.More responsibility over individual lives prescribing work as an individuals are unacceptable within this necessity of the new monetary prison system which allows you to exist.
Reality Check: However, despite the fact that 9 to 5 is time consuming and results in commitments, it is a paycheck, recognized legal status, and the ability to make individual decisions. While employees are bound to perform the jobs in their workplaces, they have the liberty of being able to select their jobs; bargain over their terms of service; and walk out of their working stations if they so wish.
"Work for a Living":
“That’s why it’s called ‘work for living.’ Yes, he is obligated, a slave to work to live. If one doesn’t work, he doesn’t eat as the adage in the Bible speaks of. If one doesn’t work, he doesn’t live”.
Fundamental Difference: Having to strive for a living in any society of the world is a common backbone. The whole idea of working and trying to make a living to is not the same thing as slavery in any way. Slavery is defined as the act of working for others without payment, protection, or freedom that is from being a slave.
Obligation and Enslavement:
“Therefore, it is your duty to toil in order to survive That is what slavery to the hilt is all about You have got credit slavery, paper enslavemen – Basically, monetary bondage and slave-like labor.
Autonomy and Choice: When it comes to the obligation in the context of earning a living, then slavery doesn’t apply. And people have the ability to change their careers and start businesses, and follow different careers that they would like. Here, a person is deprived of all freedom, all independence, and thus the slave represents a person without any choice or control over their life.
Alternative Lifestyles:
"Now there are those that have apparently broken out of this prison in route to the wilderness. They too have to still work to eat. They have managed to escape the monetary prison. But their obligations to utilize resources more so than back when they first started a 9 to 5 is the reality."
- Self-Sufficiency: Even those who choose alternative lifestyles still need to work to survive. This further demonstrates that working for sustenance is a universal necessity, not a form of slavery. The key difference remains the freedom to choose one's path.
Common Objections:
"I can just quit a 9 to 5 job. How am I enslaved to it?"
- Answer: You aren’t enslaved if you can quit. The ability to leave, seek other opportunities, and negotiate terms underscores your autonomy.
"There's no penalty or consequence for refusing to work. I have the 'freedom' to refuse to work."
- Answer: Refusing to work may lead to financial hardship, but that’s a consequence of living in a society where work sustains life. It’s vastly different from the penalties slaves faced, such as physical punishment or death.
"What about when the time comes to get off work, quitting time as they say? How about vacation, holiday time and 'requested' time off?"
- Answer: Employees are entitled to breaks, holidays, and vacation time, ensuring a work-life balance. Slaves had no such rights or time off.
"What about a leave of absence or calling off? Aren't I free then?"
- Answer: Modern labor laws protect your right to take leave for health, family, or personal reasons. Slaves had no legal protections or the ability to take leave.
"Don't I have freedom period? Nobody owns me."
- Answer: Exactly. The fact that you have personal freedom and legal rights demonstrates that you are not enslaved. Slavery involves ownership and total control over another person's life.
Uncommon Objections:
"Who is my master? What is my master?"
- Answer: You don’t have a master; you have an employer. You can choose to work for them or not, unlike slaves who had no such choice.
"A slave is in chains and shackles. I'm not a prisoner."
- Answer: Precisely. You are not physically restrained or imprisoned. You have freedom of movement and the ability to make life choices, which slaves did not.
To sum up, your freedom to decide on the kind of job, freedom to bargain for the terms of employment, freedom from bondages coupled with the civil liberties and last but not the least the hope for growth and development independently differentiates 9-to-5 job from slavery. I know this trivializes the real horrors that slaves underwent, but it puts into perspective the angst of the OFWs.
Round 3
Pro
#5
" It is very unwise of you to deny currently employed wage labor system especially the 9 to 5 jobs as slavery. "
My position is not denying wage labor as slavery. It's accepting that it is.
Whom has broken free of 9-5 slavery?
Freelancers right.
Independent contractors.
Investors. Now they're touted as the most free of all.
Why? They don't work for money.
Their money works for them.
Now put that in your pipe and smoke it.
"The 9-5 wage labor industry is a system of some cases dominating the lives of people in the overtime sector."
That's incorrect. It dominates in all cases. Not only dominates but obligates.
Think of those two traits with the 9-5. It dominates and obligates.
"More responsibility over individual lives prescribing work as an individuals are unacceptable within this necessity of the new monetary prison system which allows you to exist."
Acceptability is not a point in this topic. It's either true that the 9-5 is modern day slavery or it's not.
I say it is based on the enslavement system it's inside of.
"While employees are bound to perform the jobs in their workplaces, they have the liberty of being able to select their jobs; bargain over their terms of service; and walk out of their working stations if they so wish."
Looks like the common objections I broached:
"I can just quit a 9 to 5 job.
How am I enslaved to it?"
The question I have to the opposing side. Are people that participate in the monetary system obligated to work?
Doesn't this make it a dominating factor in the lives of people?
"The whole idea of working and trying to make a living to is not the same thing as slavery in any way. Slavery is defined as the act of working for others without payment, protection, or freedom that is from being a slave."
This is also incorrect. In order to have a slave, that slave must be protected. Getting paid doesn't make a difference because you're still bound by monetary supremacy.
Also let's look back in history in the land of America, minorities had jobs, got wages, even had businesses. But because of another supremacy system, it put a cap on their freedoms and rights and advantages and benefits. This is why people say slavery never ended for them back in 1865. It just transitioned.
Also having money is no different then that of giving a slave some sort of compensation in the form of food, clothing, housing. Just what any person today just about would buy anyway.
I know this is an ugly reality but slavery has never ended, just transitioned. We like to look at things different. We like to see the oppression and tyrannical conditions gone but things have just been reshuffled.
"Autonomy and Choice: When it comes to the obligation in the context of earning a living, then slavery doesn’t apply. And people have the ability to change their careers and start businesses, and follow different careers that they would like. "
Just like a slave on the plantation that can choose to work in the big house, out in the field or a penal prisoner that can work in different areas of the prison. Some better than others or more advantageous, prestigious or favorable. A slave can have a choice of all of this. Better meals, better environment, better conditions, anything to make life more luxurious. This is what can be rendered to a slave whereas the master can afford, allocate and assess "hey this a good deal for you servant".
This is how it's argued about slavery never truly ending in 1865. You think you're not a slave because you left my plantation. This whole country, this whole world is my plantation. My government, my laws, mostly my businesses, you have some. You have your forty acres and a mule . You have your choice of what you want to do under my discriminatory laws, where you can go, what you're allowed to do which I can make so tight to easily incarcerate you to make you penal slaves. We're just shifting the terms around. You're still in the same world. - This is in the mind of those that realize the world we're in .
Speaking of the world we're in which is today, the modern day 9-5 holds obligation, the modern world holds what you are and not allowed to do.
"Here, a person is deprived of all freedom, all independence, and thus the slave represents a person without any choice or control over their life."
Even penal prisoners have choices. Parolees, people on probation, house arrest. Outside of those taken route to the wilderness, all are enslaved. It's just a difference of how much slack is in that chain compared to another.
"Self-Sufficiency: Even those who choose alternative lifestyles still need to work to survive. This further demonstrates that working for sustenance is a universal necessity, not a form of slavery. The key difference remains the freedom to choose one's path."
I don't think you've grasped what I mean by slavery. You're still looking at it from your view thus not arguing against my position. My position is not stationed by your terms on the word.
"You aren’t enslaved if you can quit. The ability to leave, seek other opportunities, and negotiate terms underscores your autonomy."
You aren't enslaved to what?
"Refusing to work may lead to financial hardship, but that’s a consequence of living in a society where work sustains life. It’s vastly different from the penalties slaves faced, such as physical punishment or death."
No no no, don't just stop at financial hardship. What can it lead to going into more dire circumstances?
Look at this in depth now. You being shortsighted here. This is the parallel I'm talking about. Both have consequences from breaking free . You're on the right track but you got off the train too early.
Both have consequences from ghosting an obligation comrade.
"Modern labor laws protect your right to take leave for health, family, or personal reasons. Slaves had no legal protections or the ability to take leave."
In short, the answer is no. You're still subject to a 9-5 even when taking time off because the 9-5 grants that time for one thing just as laws that grants rights as any slave that is granted what they're allowed to do.
"Exactly. The fact that you have personal freedom and legal rights demonstrates that you are not enslaved. Slavery involves ownership and total control over another person's life."
You have freedom inside a prison. Rights are what you are allowed and not allowed to do which is control. Like I said, a slave can have a short leash or a huge amount of slack in that chain.
"You don’t have a master; you have an employer. You can choose to work for them or not, unlike slaves who had no such choice."
The master is the dollar bill. Inside the system of monetary supremacy, there is nothing you do without being subject to the dollar. Slaves do have a choice. If you ever heard of the underground railroad, they made their choice and changed the circumstances.
Same thing with inmates that choose to prison breakout or go through the appeal process.
"Precisely. You are not physically restrained or imprisoned. You have freedom of movement and the ability to make life choices, which slaves did not."
You're not enslaved only by way of physical restraints . Otherwise prisoners in a prison yard wouldn't be prisoners. The whole world is a prison yard. People are enslaved mentally. People can't do anything without a say so, an approval or without being subject to something, obligated to something. This is all enslavement. Now I think I may have mentioned this but the term I'm using may be just not be well received or rejected. So because the average person doesn't look at this that way, the person doesn't think in those terms.
So no, besides physically, you can be in the big house, not chained up but working. Doesn't change your subordinate status.
When you have a system like this in place, you don't worry about slaves fleeing. No where to flee to. They're in a world prison.
"To sum up, your freedom to decide on the kind of job, freedom to bargain for the terms of employment, freedom from bondages coupled with the civil liberties and last but not the least the hope for growth and development independently differentiates 9-to-5 job from slavery. I know this trivializes the real horrors that slaves underwent, but it puts into perspective the angst of the OFWs."
Yes just go over all my responses in this round and try to grasp on a little more. Even the way I use the term slavery , picture it in the sense of bare bones. Not attributing it to any exclusive experience or people.
Round 4
Pro
#7
I believe the opposing side concedes.
The individual has messaged me communicating the time is not available to defend the opposing case.
Either that or either way, no opposing defense at all.
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Winner
1 point(s)
Reason:
Forfeiture.
However, both had compelling point; it’s certainly worth pondering how similar we might be to slavery (or more accurately indentured servitude).
If trying to argue this more seriously, definitions into the description will be important.
Amen, amen .
I have a principled stance against socialism merely because if we have the rule, "from each according to their ability, to each according to their need", then in the long run, people won't want to develop their abilities due to the work that it requires presently and the future if there is no financial compensation for it because their needs will stay about the same regardless of if they work or not, thereby discouraging productivity and decreasing good production, leading to more starvation than what the homeless currently endure.
From the AUP position, it is better than 600,000 homeless people go hungry in the US than to have 330 million people in the US go hungry from food simply not being produced.
We should free ourselves from the restricting chains of the immoral and greedy employers exploiting us as robotic assets of theirs rather than people too like them. Go Socialism!
(Watch people hate me for saying it.)
If you think the 9-5 job is slavery, then I am pro-slavery because I don't know of a good alternative to it. I'm not scared of negative labels like most people are.
Hey looks like we're all in agreement here. I don't know for sure about these things so I test the waters to see if there happens to be disagreement.
Wish I could avoid the newcomers that just are a waste.
Thanks for nothing.
Most likely, a 9-5 job...
How are you defining slavery?
Having literally been a slave, this has my attention.
Slavery is modern-day slavery
Its not slavery. It just feels like that because you spend entire day working for a wage which you cant even enjoy because you have to work the whole day.