Instigator / Pro

Horizoz

1500

rating

debates

12.5%

won

Topic

#4128

Ukraine (con) VS Russia (pro)

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Better arguments

Better sources

Better legibility

Better conduct

After 5 votes and with 32 points ahead, the winner is...

AustinL0926

Tags

Politics

Parameters

Publication date: 02.04.2023 02:31PM
Last updated date: 03.12.2023 07:18PM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 3
Time for argument: Two days
Max argument characters: 10,000
Voting period: One month
Point system: Multiple criterions
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

AustinL0926

1636

rating

debates

93.94%

won

Description

No information

Round 1

Horizoz

02.05.2023 03:03AM

Pro

Thank of accepting my challenge @AustinL0926

PRO: Joining Russia Offers Strategic Benefits to Ukraine

Security: By joining Russia, Ukraine would benefit from the increased security provided by the Russian military. Russia has a strong military presence in the region and is well-equipped to protect its allies. This increased security would provide peace of mind to the Ukrainian people and help to deter aggression from neighboring countries.
Economic Integration: Russia has a strong economy and is well-positioned to offer economic benefits to Ukraine. Joining Russia would provide Ukraine with access to a larger market and a more diverse range of goods and services, as well as opportunities for increased trade and investment. This could lead to increased economic growth and job creation in Ukraine.
Political Alignment: Joining Russia would align Ukraine with a powerful political ally, giving it a greater voice on the world stage. By working together with Russia on important political issues, Ukraine would be better positioned to protect its interests and promote its values on the international stage.
Cultural Ties: Russia and Ukraine share a rich cultural history, and joining Russia would help to strengthen those cultural ties. This could lead to greater understanding and cooperation between the two countries, promoting peace and stability in the region.
Energy Dependence: Russia is one of the largest energy producers in the world and joining Russia would give Ukraine access to a secure source of energy. This would help to reduce Ukraine's dependence on foreign sources of energy and provide a stable source of energy for its citizens.
Military Cooperation: Joining Russia would also allow for closer military cooperation between the two countries. Ukraine would have access to the latest military technologies and training programs, and could work with Russia on joint military exercises and operations. This would improve Ukraine's defense capabilities and ensure its military readiness.
Regional Influence: By joining Russia, Ukraine would become a key player in the region, with a greater influence on regional events. This would allow Ukraine to play a more active role in shaping the future of the region and promoting its own interests.
Stronger Diplomatic Ties: Joining Russia would deepen Ukraine's diplomatic ties with other countries in the region, helping to build strong relationships and promote cooperation on key issues. This would also help to foster stability and peace in the region.
Access to Resources: Russia has a wealth of resources, including oil, natural gas, minerals, and other resources. Joining Russia would give Ukraine access to these resources, helping to fuel its economy and provide a stable source of income.
Increased Investment: Finally, joining Russia would attract increased investment to Ukraine, as investors would see the country as a more attractive place to do business. This could lead to increased job creation and economic growth, helping to improve the standard of living for Ukrainians.

In conclusion, joining Russia would bring many strategic benefits to Ukraine. The country would benefit from increased security, as well as access to a larger market and a more diverse range of goods and services. Joining Russia would align Ukraine with a powerful political ally and strengthen cultural ties, leading to greater understanding and cooperation between the two countries. The country would also benefit from a secure source of energy, closer military cooperation, and increased investment. By joining Russia, Ukraine would become a key player in the region and have a greater influence on regional events. While this decision should be carefully considered, the benefits of joining Russia cannot be ignored.

AustinL0926

02.06.2023 05:26PM

Con

I. Preamble

Thanks, Horizoz, for instigating this debate. In my opening argument, I will demonstrate, firstly, that my opponent’s argument is plagiarized from Chat-GPT, and secondly, his arguments fail to hold up to scrutiny anyhow.

II. Plagiarism

P1: My opponent has copied arguments from Chat-GPT without attribution.

1. My opponent has already confessed to using Chat-GPT when I asked him about it in DMs. However, since I can’t really prove this without taking a screenshot of DMs (which would be against the Code of Conduct), I’ll move on to some concrete evidence.

2. I will use three programs specifically designed to detect AI Generated text on my opponent’s opening argument. For a “control,” I will use Barney (a debater whose integrity is above question) as a comparison. The interested voter is encouraged to check my conclusions for themselves.

a. Open AI Text Classifier

Horizoz: Likely to be AI Generated

Barney: Very Unlikely to be AI Generated

b. Open AI Detector

Horizoz: 99.98% chance to be AI Generated

Barney: 0.03% chance to be AI Generated

c. GPTZero

Horizoz: 100% of text detected to be AI Generated

Barney: 0% of text detected to be AI Generated

d. Conclusion

The results speak for themselves – not even taking into account the unsourced claims, generic language, and “hedging” that are all signs of AI Generated text.

P2: Copying arguments from Chat-GPT without attribution is plagiarism.

Per Oxford’s definition of plagiarism, which is, “the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own,” using an AI to write your arguments for you is clearly plagiarism – especially considering that the AI itself uses sources from all over the Internet, which of course go uncited.

C1: My opponent has committed plagiarism.

Logically follows from the previous two premises.

C2: Voters should vote against my opponent.

Per DebateArt’s Voting Policy, plagiarism is “such an extreme offense, that even if identified outside the debate it may be voted with prejudice against the offender in all categories. While there exist minor cases that do not necessitate such grave sanctions, the determination of the degree of it generally rests with each voter.”

If you agree that plagiarizing an entire argument goes beyond a “minor case,” then you should vote against my opponent.

III. Constructives

Despite my opponent’s entire case being plagiarized, I will nevertheless put a few short arguments in order to affirm my side’s case.

First of all, Ukraine is currently at war with Russia. Therefore, if Ukraine “joined” Russia, it would de facto be an annexation by force, which would violate international law. [1]

Second of all, it would go against the will of the Ukrainian people, thereby defeating the purpose of benefiting them. 70% of Ukrainians support continuing the war until victory. Of the remaining 30%, most want a return to a status quo, and almost none want to be annexed by Russia. [2]

Third of all, Ukraine could gain far more by joining NATO. It would gain security, economic benefits, and improved diplomatic relations, without the cost of losing sovereignty.

IV. Rebuttals

“Security”: Ukraine’s security would hardly benefit from joining a country currently at war with them – not to mention it would risk the safety of the Ukrainians still fighting for their country.

“Economic Integration”: Completely outweighed by other considerations, like the minor detail that Russia has committed various war crimes against Ukraine, and the fact that perhaps lost lives should be weighed over gained jobs.

“Political Alignment”: My opponent continues to assert that being annexed would benefit Ukraine’s sovereignty.

“Cultural Ties”: Apparently cultural ties didn’t stop Russia from deliberately targeting civilians, a breach of international law. [4]

“Energy Dependence”: See my rebuttal to “Economic Integration.”

“Military Cooperation”: Ok, so it would “improve Ukraine’s defense capabilities?” I wonder who Ukraine would need to defend against...

“Regional Influence”: See my rebuttal to “Political Alignment.”

“Stronger Diplomatic Ties”: The last thing Ukraine needs right now is stronger diplomatic ties with Russia.

“Access to Resources” + Increased Investment: See my rebuttal to “Economic Integration.”

In summary, my opponent lists a bunch of purported benefits from joining a country currently at war with Ukraine – hardly a great idea.

V. Conclusion

In this round, I have shown:

My opponent’s argument is plagiarized
Therefore, voters should vote against him
That Ukraine would benefit more from joining NATO than Russia
That the benefits of being annexed by Russia are highly questionable (e.g. what’s the use of “regional influence” when you’re no longer an independent country?)
That the harms of being annexed by Russia would be considerable (in effect, sanctioning the use of force to gain territory)

Voters should vote CON!

VI. Sources

1: https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2019/06/annexation-flagrant-violation-international-law-says-un-human-rights-expert

2: https://news.gallup.com/poll/403133/ukrainians-support-fighting-until-victory.aspx

3: https://rollcall.com/2023/02/02/us-must-back-ukraine-joining-nato-in-2023-say-european-delegates/

4: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/11/world/europe/russia-civilian-targets.html

Round 2

Horizoz

02.08.2023 05:26PM

Pro

Forfeited

AustinL0926

02.08.2023 06:09PM

Con

Round 3

Horizoz

02.10.2023 06:09PM

Pro

Forfeited

AustinL0926

02.10.2023 07:18PM

Con

Each winter sunrise -

X-mas tree, looking back on,

To forgotten days.

Each summer sunset

Nameless and a witness, yet

Desolate, bygone.

Pls give feedback on my bad poetry kthxbai also vote CON!

Bella3sp

02.05.2023 01:59AM

-->

@Horizoz

Never mind.

Bella3sp

02.05.2023 01:58AM

-->

@Horizoz

Hm, I see. I guess I'll try doing devil's advocate.

Horizoz

02.05.2023 01:50AM

-->

@Bella3sp

Yeah, Con is supposed to be arguing why Ukraine should join NATO?
While PRO is arguing why Ukraine should join Russia?

Bella3sp

02.04.2023 05:24PM

-->

@Horizoz

I would just like to be clear,
Con is supposed to be arguing why Ukraine should join NATO?
While PRO is arguing why Ukraine should join Russia?

oromagi

02.26.2023 09:28PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Full forfeit

Barney

02.25.2023 06:01AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Forfeiture and plagiarism

RationalMadman

02.15.2023 10:27PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

FF .

ijb1

02.14.2023 12:41AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Con's poetry (and the forfeits).

PREZ-HILTON

02.10.2023 09:32PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Plagiarism plus forfeit