Okay, so I'm gonna do a relatively lazyish Round 1 because honestly this is a 30k per Round debate and the Pro position is about defending against the Con ones here.
I'll paste some points from the Comments, that I wrote, before proceeding to explore other parallels:
1) Both are orphans but have an adoptive alpha dad type that is overall sided with 'good' and both of their 'dad' figures are well-seasoned cops that don't entirely approve of their methods, especially when others influence them (in Spiderman it's his uncle, in Flash's it's his neighbour who was close to his dad until it was believed that his dad killed his mother).
2) Both have a female they fawn after that was their neighbour and is more like a sister to them, making the feelings a bit inappropriate and then have a continual 'cuck' vibe throughout their story with a lot of hit and miss. The female they are after is very kind but oblivious to the fact the respective boys-turned-men like her that much despite having known them for so many years.
3) Both have a link to the primary newspaper exploring them, ensuring they get the best press by getting either closer to a reporter or in Spiderman's case being that reporter (at least in his original storyline, that changes with this newer guy and how they're playing it out there with him as a younger goofy type).
Now, let's state some more clear-cut ones:
- Both are in flexible red suits (Spiderman's is a lot more flexible but that's not really a disproof)
- The suits are not only streamlined to help their powers be utilised and protect their body but also are used to protect their identity as they regularly go around their local city (not town, not village, both very urban) to fight crime.
- Both of them have interactions with the woman/chick/girl they crush on while in the 'hero persona' this sparks things that then help them in the normal persona.
- While Spiderman had Venom corrupt him for his overly 'cocky' era, Flash's speedforce itself makes him continously very arrogant in his abilities and drunk on optimistic overestimation. Flash has had moments where Spiderman had a whole movie or Comic-book era dedicated to a the speed force and a villain bringing out their bad side but that's not really important as much as this:
- Reverse-flash is symbolically to Flash what Venom is to Spiderman. I get that physiologically Venom is very different to Spiderman but these 2 villains have a similar suit/outfit that is blatantly designed to be more sinister than their hero counterpart. It is not common in either comic for heroes to have a villain that sort of 'mirrors' them in a bad way like that. Only Iron Man in Marvel comes to mind as having had such a villain and that was short-lived.
- Zoom is similar to Green Goblin's son (Harry Osborn) that becomes Green Goblin. Both are jaded sons hellbent on revenge and power, both have Flash or Spiderman (respectively) continuously interact with them out of their suit and mistake them as an ally that understands and relates to them. Both also find that their hero (Flash or Spiderman) struggles to kill them when the time comes and it is in fact their own relentless bloodthirst to defeat the hero and outdo him that brings both to their death (or in Zoom's case total disappearance as we don't truly know what Time Wraiths do to the captured).
- Harry Osborn, other than in this newest iteration, was a handsome, cocky guy in the movies of Toby Maguire's Spiderman very much like Hunter Zolomon in Flash. Don't deny it, they are sexy, handsome men to some degree. I admit this wasn't true in the comics, Zoom in fact kind of was reverse-flash revamped but green goblin also had 2 iterations and was rethought of in some editions of Marvel as well.
Now for some more subtle ones:
- In the 'teams' that form, in Spiderman's case it's during the Civil war with him being team Iron Man and in Flash's case it's The Crisis team (not the justice league as such but that can count in a way) Flash and Spiderman are the fast, nimble sidekicks. While I admit Flash's speed makes him ultimately more truly OP than Spiderman ever will be, both are ultimately flankers and supports to their team. Where Spiderman is a support by stunning, trapping and such, Flash is the support by being fast, grabbing and handing enemies over. Both of them are incredible dodgers which makes them excellent melee supports while the ranged members of their team can snipe from afar or more powerful (strong-offence) members can come in and attack as the Flash or Spiderman weaves (pun intended) in and out, disrupting the enemies.
- While the movies don't truly do it justice, Spiderman is definitely very fast. Of course he's not flash-fast but Spiderman thinks extremely fast and 'feels' threats including precise punches and bullets, coming from afar able to either dodge or weave thick protective web to handle it.
- Both of them flex their powers at times by either scaling or running up buildings respectively and in each iteration have a period of 'discovering' their powers that is 'exciting' once they realise they can handled up-down fights like that. This also makes it very difficult for them to hide and stay out of the limelight as especially their big-scale building fights make them big time news locally.
- Kid-Flash is to Flash what Andrew Macquire is to Spiderman minus wanting to 'mimic' their main hero. What is interesting however is that Macquire and Kid-Flash both are even goofier/funnier than their counterparts without being dorkier.
- Spiderman and Flash both were victims of bullying and are one of the only characters that aren't villains in their comics who have this strong backstory of being taunted as youngsters and overcoming it. They are paragons of what a person with a tough childhood who is skinner than most rather than chubbier, can relate to. The pain of a scrawny guy who keeps trying to use his intellect to compensate is one that only those who relate to it... relate to it (well duh). You either relate or you don't it's not a half-relate thing and is a very underdone trope actually when it comes to heroes rather than villains.
- Just like I said they're both the flashy, dodging supports for the teams they join, there's a more interesting constant; even in Team Flash where Flash is the 'main guy' on paper, he never really was; Harrison Wells was (or Eobard Thawne). He always has a strong male mentor and so does Spiderman in the teams he forms and his adoptive uncle before him or even that mean guy at the newspaper place that he gave his photography... yeah that's the guy who adopts Spiderman in one iteration of the comics. These guys represent the 'needy son for a dad' vibe that again only those who can relate will relate to in any way. That character is often not just more masculine but also genuinely wiser, for Spiderman it's Iron man in the later iterations and team and for Flash it's The (Green) Arrow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFRi2xsei_o
Con FF'd
I don't disagree. I think the only real exposition on Joker's motivations were in Alan Moore's "The Killing Joke" which was a cringeworthy read.
Green Goblin has way more to him than Joker does in one respect and in another he's just shallow as it gets where Joker had some depth.
"There are no characyers truly like Hulk and Punisher in DC"
Solomon Grundy and Vigilante.
"as epic as Joker"
Green Goblin, especially when he killed Gwen Stacy.
"In turn, Marvel ends up with more fascinating heroes and DC ends up with more epic, polarising villains."
I can see how this is your impression. I'm biased though, since I typically preferred DC. But your characterization isn't off the mark.
I am sure even the real life illuminati was responsible for putting the illuminati into Marvel, to make a joke of it. I am okay with the idea it is pagan, luciferan even and that it is what you say.
However, there are clear genuine differences and it is not all a game of repetition.
There are no characters truly like Hulk and Punisher in DC nor are there villains as epic as Joker and Reverse Flash in Marvel.
I prefer Marvel but the difference is this:
DC focuses entirely on making their heroes the ones you root for by ensuring the villains are so screwed up and epicly evil that you truly cannot help but root against the villains.
Marvel focuses on a balance by regularly showing flaws to heroes and humanising their villains to an extent that you are not always sure that you entirely root for the heroes.
Magneto and Silver Surfer (as an original villain to the fantastic four) are two examples of villains that genuinely are only villainous due to acting against the agenda and narrative of the heroes.
Marvel tries to make you constantly think, question and reassess. It shows the scarring behind almost all villains that led to their downwards spirals.
DC keeps it simple, you can explore the villains but they are just so absolutely evil and corrupt in their agenda that you barely ever can deny they are the malignant one.
In turn, Marvel ends up with more fascinating heroes and DC ends up with more epic, polarising villains.
"I firstly can but do not want to arm Con with arguments and secondly, if you have a character that you feel is more like one, in the other comic's multiverse, then go ahead and debate it.
I should note that Marvel believes in universe where DC believes in multiverse but that distinction is only truly relevant to time travel mechanics.
Marvel later changed to support multiverse or omniverse anyway."
This in part informs my criticism. How does one resolve this debate? Perhaps if you word it as: "Flash in the DC universe is the closest approximation to Spider-man in the Marvel Universe, powers notwithstanding." At least this creates a metric where no other heroes measure up in order for the debate to be resolved.
Superman is gleaned from Zeus-Ammon (a.k.a. Amun-Ra.) And Spider-man is gleaned from the scarab form of Ra, known as Kheper.
"It has an actual resolution. Thanks."
No, it doesn't. You're essentially asking prospective voters to consider stipulations that aren't quite stringent. Perhaps if you itemize a set of parameters on which you and your would-be opponent would be arguing in favor or against this comparison, there a might be a semblance of a resolution.
"Captain America and Iron Man are actually two halves of Superman's persona and role ripped apart, if you ask me."
"Arrow of DC is the Iron man in Marvel but Iron Man's way of operating is far less secretive and lowkey than Arrow's.
Arrow is actually more like Daredevil but without question daredevil is linked to batman."
I don't deny any of this. Most of these superheroes are quite similar to each other (particularly because they're gleaned from mythology.) I could compare both Batman and Superman by stating they're both orphans who have mothers named Martha (a point explored in Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice.)
I firstly can but do not want to arm Con with arguments and secondly, if you have a character that you feel is more like one, in the other comic's multiverse, then go ahead and debate it.
I should note that Marvel believes in universe where DC believes in multiverse but that distinction is only truly relevant to time travel mechanics.
Marvel later changed to support multiverse or omniverse anyway.
Well, I can't think of any reason spiderman and flash are different if you ignore details and powers. Might as well debate any two items with that gross oversimplification lol
I can think of several other ways oranges differ to apples.
There is no pagan origin of Superman that I know of. He was originally the communist ubermensch gone evil. Simon and Schuster stated this themselves.
On balance apples are just like oranges if flavor and texture are ignored.
Arrow of DC is the Iron man in Marvel but Iron Man's way of operating is far less secretive and lowkey than Arrow's.
Arrow is actually more like Daredevil but without question daredevil is linked to batman.
Captain America and Iron Man are actually two halves of Superman's persona and role ripped apart, if you ask me.
It has an actual resolution. Thanks.
If we're going to compare Spider-man to a DC Superhero, it would be Superman. I can go into the pagan origin of both, but aside from that, you have two geeky orphans turned reporters, who are heavily influenced by the paternal figures in their lives, and have longed for the "redhead" (this is on purpose) next door. Now if we're talking about Barry Allen's Flash, which I presume you are, then a comparison can be made between all three of them. But Spider-Man to Superman would be the closest comparison, in my opinion.
I may have accepted this debate if it had an actual resolution. It's no surprise that many superheroes can be comparable.
Both use re-writing time to keep from growing up!
To avoid spoilers I will just say this:
There are way more similarities and parallels than you may first think. I haven't seen anywhere near the depths that I'm about to explore on any fan-based article or even Quora thread etc so I am pretty confident I can go full blast here and not accidentally plagiarise or whatever.
I will give you 3 similarities that avoid spoiling much because they are early season 1 reveals for Flash and in Spiderman are well-known:
1) Both are orphans but have an adoptive alpha dad type that is overall sided with 'good' and both of their 'dad' figures are well-seasoned cops that don't entirely approve of their methods, especially when others influence them (in Spiderman it's his uncle, in Flash's it's his neighbour who was close to his dad until it was believed that his dad killed his mother).
2) Both have a female they fawn after that was their neighbour and is more like a sister to them, making the feelings a bit inappropriate and then have a continual 'cuck' vibe throughout their story with a lot of hit and miss. The female they are after is very kind but oblivious to the fact the respective boys-turned-men like her that much despite having known them for so many years.
3) Both have a link to the primary newspaper exploring them, ensuring they get the best press by getting either closer to a reporter or in Spiderman's case being that reporter (at least in his original storyline, that changes with this newer guy and how they're playing it out there with him as a younger goofy type).
I think he’s talking more about personality and how he fits in with the other heroes. In those respects, I can see how the two speedsters differ.
i get the sense that quicksilver is more alike to the flash than Spiderman.