Instigator / Pro

elhombremasinteligente

1493

rating

debates

16.67%

won

Topic

#3259

IQ is a good measure of intelligence.

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Winner

After 1 vote and with 1 point ahead, the winner is...

Benjamin

Judges

Intelligence_06

172 debates / 180 votes

Voted

Tags

Science

Parameters

Publication date: 11.09.2021 03:53AM
Last updated date: 01.16.2022 02:13PM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 5
Time for argument: Two weeks
Max argument characters: 10,000
Voting period: One week
Point system: Winner selection
Voting system: Judges

Contender / Con

Benjamin

1774

rating

debates

77.55%

won

Description

definitions:
good: correct in most cases to determine whether or not someone has a characteristic.
intelligence: high ability to solve problems.

rules:
1. stick to the definitions.
2. The burden of proof is shared.

Round 1

elhombremasinteligente

11.09.2021 02:43PM

Pro

The first thing to keep in mind is that the different intelligences are correlated.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3985090/

This becomes more obvious when you consider that there is not a single shark that surpasses it in some type of intelligence, the difference between species shows the g factor.

Now, unlike what many say, the IQ does not measure only logical-mathematical intelligence, but also spatial and verbal linguistics, mathematical logic.

the IQ is nothing more than a generalization of these aspects, so the effect of this correlation becomes even more precise, now the IQ is directly correlated with the success within each respective profession

https://www.inc.com/business-insider/why-iq-big-factor-future-success-job-performance-according-science-research.html

which in itself implies a higher capacity for problem solving.

Benjamin

11.10.2021 04:20PM

Con

Measure: a way to discover the excact size or amount of something (the result must be expressed by number(s) and a unit(s))

Unit: a reference "amount" of something (examples: temperature-Kelvin, distance-metre, etc)

ARGUMENTS

There are different types of intelligence

The ability to learn, think and solve problems is not restricted to logical puzzles. Yet IQ tests are, making them unrepresentative.

IQ tests captures too little to accurately represent intelligence

"""After conducting the largest online intelligence study on record, a Western University-led research team has concluded that the notion of measuring one's intelligence quotient or IQ by a singular, standardized test is highly misleading. The results showed that when a wide range of cognitive abilities are explored, the observed variations in performance can only be explained with at least three distinct components: short-term memory, reasoning and a verbal component.

No one component, or IQ, explained everything. Furthermore, the scientists used a brain scanning technique known as functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI), to show that these differences in cognitive ability map onto distinct circuits in the brain.""" [1].

IQ even fails at measuring logical problem-solving skills. IQ misrepresents intellectual ability by oversimplifying it into one number when you need at least three.

Intelligence Quotient is not a valid unit for measurement

Unlike the Kelvin, the metre or the second, IQ is not actually a defined unit. Nobody knows what 1 IQ means, nor do we know the actuall difference between a person with 200 and one with 300 IQ. All IQ tells us is where on the distribution of test scores any given person would land. If everyone become twice as smart, IQ scores would not change. And no, the test scores are not valid measurement units either. The tests are made with difficulty corresponding to the capability of humans. We know that animals are intelligent to some degree, but unlike good measurements like kilogram, IQ tests are incompatible with animals. We would need to make new tests for animals. But then we wouldn't know how high of an IQ a human would get if it were to take the new easier test for animals.

IQ cannot actually measure intelligence as it neither has a unit of intelligence nor a scale of intelligence.

REBUTTALS

The first thing to keep in mind is that the different intelligences are correlated... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3985090/

I find no support this statement in PRO's source, and it didn't mention a shark either. The study's conclusion is as follows: "Cortical thickness is positively associated with general intelligence (g) in a wide distribution of cortical association areas in both brain hemispheres." Correlation between the size of the brain and cognitive abilities is not the same as IQ describing the other types of intelligence. Thus, IQ is still not proven representative for intelligence.

the IQ is directly correlated with the success within each respective profession

This correlation between IQ and success is not conclusive evidence. Even if IQ was directly correlated to intelligence it would still not be a good measurement of intelligence. On average, mass is correlated to a star's volume, but that doesn't mean that kilogram is a good measure of volume. To measure the volume of a star you have to measure the diameter of that star. Similarly, you cannot measure intelligence without testing all relevant aspects of it.

At best, IQ is an estimation of total intelligence --- not a measurement. With current technology and our limited knowledge it is impossible to measure intelligence.

CONCLUSION:

IQ is not a good measure of intelligence. The resolution fails.

Round 2

elhombremasinteligente

11.10.2021 06:27PM

Pro

riddle:

a puzzling, misleading, or puzzling question posed as a problem to be solved.

Many questions on an IQ test are neither puzzling nor misleading, so the test is not limited to logical puzzles.

Now your second argument is irrelevant, even if the IQ test is very misleading, even if it is not able to measure all the variations in cognitive abilities, even if it does not explain everything, and even if more components are needed, that does not . . It means that it does not determine in most cases whether or not someone has a measure of intelligence, which is the only thing I have to prove given the definitions in the description.

your other argument is also irrelevant, it doesn't matter whether or not IQ is a valid measure of intelligence, it only matters whether it determines in most cases whether someone has a measure of intelligence (check definition of good in description).

If most of the intelligences are correlated with the size of the cerebral cortex, then as one intelligence increases, the more likely that the cerebral cortex is large and, therefore, the other intelligences are high; however, the IC analyzes various types of intelligence. That means a person with a high IQ is more likely to be intelligent than someone with a low IQ and someone with a medium IQ, someone with a low IQ is less likely to be intelligent than someone with a medium IQ. . and someone with a high IQ While someone with a medium IQ The IQ is less likely than someone with a high IQ and more than someone with a low IQ, that is, in most cases the IQ it is correct to determine if someone is smart or not.

the correlation of success is not conclusive, but it is a good indication, now if intelligence and IQ are correlated, that means that in most cases the IQ determines whether or not a person possesses a measure of intelligence (if has some degree of intelligence to possess it.)

Again, it is not relevant whether or not the IQ is a measure of intelligence, it is only relevant whether in most cases it determines whether or not someone possesses an intelligence measure.

Benjamin

11.16.2021 01:21PM

Con

Of course not all questions on IQ-tests are riddles --- because none of them are. Here are some riddles, for reference. You need to understand that riddles and logical puzzles do not have even remotely the same meaning. Your argument for IQ testing broad skillsets is terrible, so I will refer to your first round.

IQ does not measure only logical-mathematical intelligence, but also spatial and verbal linguistics, mathematical logic.

IQ-test question examples. The overwhelming majority of theese questions are spacial reasoning. The reason for that is that any other type of question would be unbelieveably misleading. Math and language knowledge is dependent on your upbringing and education more than on your intelligence. Including a wide array of questions would make the test inherently biased and unfair. History shows us this problem to the point where IQ-test have been used to justify racism and discrimination against people groups that weren't unintelligent but simply from different cultures [1].

That means a person with a high IQ is more likely to be intelligent than someone with a low IQ

PRO is here talking in terms of probability. The reason for this is that IQ-tests don't measure intelligence, they really only estimate it, and that based on testing a tiny fraction of a persons ability to solve problems written in paper. PRO argues that since IQ is correlated to intelligence, IQ tests actually measure intelligence. This is false, as the largest test on intelligence concluded that measuring intelligence with one number is impossible, you need at least 3. Correlation between the intelligences and the cerebral cortex thickness doesn't prove the validity of IQ as a way to measure the intelligences.

it doesn't matter whether or not IQ is a valid measure of intelligence, it only matters whether it determines in most cases whether someone has a measure of intelligence

PRO is shifting the goalpost. Everyone has "a measure of intelligence", and IQ-tests are not made with that purpose in mind. They are made as an attempt to quantify intelligence, which studies have show to be impossible with only one number. I have shown how IQ-tests don't measure intelligence, a fact which PRO has yet to dispute. His concession is followed by an appeal to nonsensical, unsourced definitions in the description. The latter of which defined "good" as being correct in most cases to determine whether or not someone has a carachteristic. In that case, the word "good" in the tittle has one meaning while the word "measure" has a completely other meaning. Neither I nor the voters are under any obligation to interpret the resolution in this constructed, nonsensical manner.

PRO did not rebutt my arguments or my evidence proving that IQ is not a good measure of intelligence. Extend all arguments.

CONCLUSION:

Intelligence cannot be validly nor accurately measured by IQ. The resolution fails.

Round 3

elhombremasinteligente

11.17.2021 02:33AM

Pro

If you say that the puzzle and the logic puzzle mean different things, you must present the sources; If we put the definition of logic and puzzle together, it turns out that a logic puzzle is a puzzle.

The tests it shows are Internet tests, so they are generally incomplete, finding a complete test on the Internet will take some time, so I will show that example in the next round.

Knowledge of mathematics and language are related to intelligence, due to their limited access to information, they had lower intelligence on average.

naturally I speak of probability, because it is the only thing I have to prove.

Just because IQ tests are not done with a purpose in mind does not mean that they cannot fulfill that purpose, the reason they serve that purpose is that in most of them they determine whether or not someone has a high capacity. to solve problems and therefore a unit of that capacity, unit, since a quantity of something (in this case the intelligence of the person) is a unit.

The definition must be interpreted that way, as the rules say, it must conform to the definitions, otherwise it must be considered misconduct.

It is true that they have different different meanings, however when the definition you gave is combined with the one I gave it is concluded that I just have to show that in most cases someone has a high capacity problem solving unit.

I have shown that IQ is correct in most cases when determining if someone has a high degree of problem solving, the reason they do not refute their arguments is because most of them are irrelevant.

It does not matter if the IQ measures intelligence or not, it does not matter if it is incomplete to have a margin of failure, the only thing that matters is if it is correct in most cases when determining if someone has a high capacity unit for solve problems, and that is shown by the correlation between IQ and intelligence.

no fonts are needed because the description explains what I mean by good.

Benjamin

12.01.2021 02:33AM

Con

Forfeited

Round 4

elhombremasinteligente

12.15.2021 02:33AM

Pro

Forfeited

Benjamin

12.26.2021 02:21PM

Con

Sorry for my previous forfeit. PRO's argument is that his moving the goalpost fallacy is supported by the rules of this debate, and that the real definitions of "measure" and "good" don't matter. By doing this he is merely defining a true resolution into existence. IQ is a one-dimensional rating of a persons ability to solve a narrow set of problems; it does not measure intelligence. We don't yet understand intelligence, far less know how to measure it. PRO's only valid argument is that IQ correlates with success in the workplace, but thats only on average. How well someone solves any particular problem cannot be determined beforehand using IQ scores. There is a reason IQ is merely a score and not a unit of measurement like meter or kelvin. To appropriately describe a person's relative intelligence you need a minimum of three numbers as per the aforementioned study. PRO is now banned, leaving this argument of mine unrebutted.

IQ is not a good measurement of intelligence.

Round 5

elhombremasinteligente

01.09.2022 02:21PM

Pro

Forfeited

Benjamin

01.09.2022 02:51PM

Con

#10

My opponent was banned. I hope this will not affect the voters when judging the arguments presented. I also hope votes consider more than just our forfeiture when voting.

Exanimaa

01.09.2022 04:34PM

IQ definitely matters, there's studies that show a correlation between IQ and educational and academic attainment. It isn't everything, you would just be wrong that it isn't a pretty accurate measure of intelligence and predictor of upbringing and later success in life, IQ tests also have many different types of intelligences they test you on in their tests.

Benjamin

12.01.2021 08:44AM

Sorry for forfeiting. I have an argument, I simply forgot to post it in time.

Intelligence_06

01.16.2022 02:13PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Winner

1 point(s)

Reason:

Sorry for being late at voting.

Conduct-wise, Pro forfeited more. Con gets it.

Legibility-wise, Con gets it due to that Pro's arguments are clumped together and are extremely hard to read whereas Con's are well organized.

Argument-wise, pro's arguments were really weak, such as that IQ is proportional to success, etc, which the sources are debunked by Con immediately showing there is not in fact a direct causation in correlation. Pro also brought up riddles, which are of nearly no impact due to that basically no questions on an IQ test are strictly riddles. Again, intelligence cannot be measured in a single dimension, and the IQ test fails to capture the entirety of intelligence. Con wins in the end.