Instigator / Con
4
1499
rating
4
debates
37.5%
won
Topic
#2114

God does not exist

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
0
3
Better sources
2
2
Better legibility
1
1
Better conduct
1
1

After 1 vote and with 3 points ahead, the winner is...

RationalMadman
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
5
Time for argument
One week
Max argument characters
15,000
Voting period
One month
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Pro
7
1702
rating
574
debates
67.86%
won
Description

For the third and (hopefully) final time:

Too often atheists get to play the role of skeptic, poking holes in theistic arguments and making believers in God bear the burden of proof. However, in so far as the atheist not only lacks belief in God but asserts that there is no God as a matter of fact, they have a burden to prove that claim. In this debate, Pro will have the burden of proof to prove the resolution; I will not have to show that the resolution is false, only that Pro has not shown it to be true.

I will not post anything the first round, giving the opening statement to Pro. Then, they will not post anything the final round, establishing a total of four rounds each (if there is a simpler way to accomplish that goal, let me know in the comments).

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@seldiora

**************************************************
>Reported Vote: seldiora // Mod action: Not Removed
>Points Awarded: 0:3; 3 points to PRO.
>Reason for Decision: See votes tab.
>Reason for Mod Action: While very underwhelming and much too vague, the vote barely hit enough of the basic requirements for the vote to be borderline. Borderline votes are ruled as sufficient.
"To award argument points, the voter must:
(1) survey the main argument and counterargument in the debate,
(2) weigh those arguments and counterarguments against each other, and
(3) explain, based on the weighing process, how they reached their decision."

This vote accomplishes the first two points well enough, but the 3rd point is missing.

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@seldiora

I didn't just do that, I even attacked the amoral god as well saying how it can't exist outside of 'everything' it creates. He never once addressed me on that.

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@Barney

you didnt see the vote

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@RationalMadman

>> How the fuck can you allow that RFD from seldiora?!

You may want to cool down. Votes get posted, and then IF reported get reviewed. They are by default allowed from any member in good standing.

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@seldiora

don't vote if you didn't read the debate

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@RationalMadman

hol up a sec, I'm re-reading the debate. Con's stance is a bit slick to examine in detail.

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@seldiora

You just deleted your vote and voted for me while your RFD supports Con.

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@seldiora

What do you mean run out of ideas? I did not forfeit the last round.

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@blamonkey
@Barney
@MisterChris

How the fuck can you allow that RFD from seldiora?!

"While Pro is ditching his religion and the God he believes in, in order to assert a God that doesn't judge people or care about morality, in order to win this debate "

I meant Con but technically both sides are doing this.

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@Pendragon524

I linked merriam.webster as the source but the definition was Cambridge's I will fix this error next Round.

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@TheUnderdog

That isn't proof of god and I believe in god. The anseer to your question innthis debate will be
that it 0% proves god.

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@RationalMadman

Comment below is intended for you. I thought Pendragon was the atheist.

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@Pendragon524

If God doesn't exist, then how come the solar system is flat as opposed to being shaped like an atom?

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@Pendragon524

Agnosticism imo is an invalid position. If im unsure of his existence, then i currently do not believe in his existence. If not sure if i can score a goal, than at the moment i do not know that i can score that goal. Its a yes or no question, there is no in between.

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@Pendragon524

Zeus can take many physical forms, anything from animals to light. You can go to mount opympus and he can be there, and you will never know.

If absense of evidence is evidence of absence, does that mean black holes and those wierd fish near hydrothermal vents didnt exist before we found the evidence? No, they exist independent of our evidence. Absense of evidence is evidence of absense of evidence, and nothing else.

Even in fantasy lands where fairies exist, they are rarely seen by people and actively avoid them. Do we know what kind of skeletons they leave or do they simple disintegrate into pixie dust? Perhaps they were visitors from another dimention and exist elsewhere in the universe. Its all guesswork, but the point is *proving* nonexistence is impossible. You can declare something doesnt exist in a specific point of space, like between earth and venus, but that doesnt mean it doesnt exist elsewhere.

Your argument about "no evidence of fairies means ita silly to believe in them" is completely opposite of "if you cant disprove god you must believe in him." I mean i cant disprove any god exists, whether its the christian god or the hindu gods. Should i believe in all of them at once even tho only 1 god and many gods is completely contradictory? You cant disprove fairies, so you must believe in fairies! That is very silly.

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@Nemiroff

I disagree that according to the myths Zeus doesn’t have a physical form, but obviously, one could amend their hypothesis and say Zeus is non-physical, sure. But that’s my point: as hypotheses become more and more as hoc, they because less and less likely to be the best explanation of the evidence (in this case, lightning, various calamities sometimes claimed to be wrought by the gods, etc). Moreover, absence of evidence IS evidence of absence of something, when we should expect that thing to leave traces if it existed. For example, the absence of evidence for a planet between Venus and the Earth is pretty good evidence that there is no such planet. Do you really think we have no reason to believe that elves and fairies don’t exist? That’s silly. If there were little flying people or immortal people with pointy ears out there on planet Earth (depending on how you define “Elf”), we would expect to find traces of them: either direct observations of them, or little fairy skeletons, etc. That we do not find these traces is pretty strong evidence that elves and fairies don’t exist.

And even if I grant that you can’t disprove that God exists, then you shouldn’t be an atheist, because claiming that God does not exist goes beyond what you have said you can prove! If there is no way to show that God does not exist, then only agnosticism about his existence could ever be justified.

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@Pendragon524

In case you didnt realize, zeus is a god and not usually in physical form. He has entered places in the form of literally a stream of light. If he doesnt want to be seen by a mortal like you, he wont.

Even if we take a step away from divine beings. Can you prove that elves or fairies dont exist?

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@Nemiroff

Yes! We can go to Mount Olympus, and lo and behold, there is no collection of gods waiting for us. Moreover, scientific explanations of lighting are more powerful explanations than appeal to Zeus. Those two facts undermine the “Zeus hypothesis.” Of course, one can always make a hypothesis more as hoc to explain the data, but that applies to any hypothesis or explanation, not just religious ones.

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@Pendragon524

Can you prove that Zeus doesn't exist?