Instigator / Pro
56
1378
rating
36
debates
38.89%
won
Topic
#1217
Saudi Arabia is the Most Evil Country in the World
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
Better arguments
24
0
Better sources
16
4
Better legibility
8
6
Better conduct
8
2
After 8 votes and with 44 points ahead, the winner is...
TheAtheist
Tags
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 5
- Time for argument
- One week
- Max argument characters
- 25,000
- Voting period
- One month
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Con
12
1421
rating
23
debates
30.43%
won
Description
My position: Saudi Arabia is the most evil country in the world.
Opponent's position: Saudi Arabia is not the most evil country in the world.
Please provide sources for statistics, quotes, etc.
R1 = Main Argument.
R2 = Rebuttals.
R3 = Rebuttals.
R4 = Rebuttals.
R5 = Final Statement.
Evil - profoundly immoral and wicked.
Round 1
Pro
#1
Thank you to Con for accepting this debate, and let's begin. I remind Con that this round is only for the Main Argument, not for Rebuttals.
============
HUMAN RIGHTS IN SAUDI ARABIA
=Democracy=
Saudi Arabia is a totalitarian, absolute monarchy without even a legislative body. The King holds absolute power and is only required to follow Sharia Law and the Quran. The country has no constitution and only follows the Quran and Sharia Law. Government elections and political parties are prohibited. According to the Economist's Democracy Index, Saudi Arabia is the seventh most authoritarian regime in the world. The entire country belongs completely to the Royal House of Saud. Yes, you read that correctly. The entire country of Saudi Arabia belongs to a single monarch. Saudi Arabia is the only country in the world where this is allowed [1].
=Women's Rights=
Women in Saudi Arabia are considered second-class citizens and are denied many of the freedoms granted to Saudi Arabian men.
- All females are legally required to have a male guardian, typically a father, brother, or husband. Women need the permission of their guardian for marriage, divorce, travel, education, employment, opening a bank account, and having elective surgery (surgery that is not required in a medical emergency).
- All women are legally required to wear a black burqa that covers them from head to toe. Failure to do so will result in fines, flogging, or even death by stoning which happened in a few separate cases.
- Saudi Arabia segregates males from females virtually everywhere. Companies are legally required to create all-female areas if they hire women. Banks and restaurants are required to have different entryways for men and women. Restaurants are legally required to be divided into two sections: one for families and women, and the other for single men. Public transportation is segregated. Gyms, swimming pools, and beaches are also all segregated: women either have to come during a different time than men or are not allowed to come at all.
- Women that are raped are punished for commiting adultery. Adultery, or sexual activity without marriage, is prohibited in Saudi Arabia. Thus, women who are raped are also convicted of adultery. The punishment for adultery can range from fines and corporal punishment to life in prison and execution by stoning. In 2006, for example, an 18-year-old victim of gang rape was sentenced to six months in prison and 90 lashes for "adultery" [2].
- Abortion is only legal if it will save the life of the mother. The fetus being aborted must also be at maximum four months old. All other abortion is prohibited by law and punishable by fines [3].
=LGBT Rights=
Saudi Arabia is the worst country on Earth for an LGBT+ person to be in. Homosexuals are imprisoned and executed, both same-sex relationships and marriages are illegal, and even films featuring LGBT topics or characters are banned. Below is a list of Saudi Arabian laws that discriminate against LGBT persons:
- Same-sex sexual activity is illegal in Saudi Arabia. Punishments for first-time offenders range from fines and deportation to chemical castration, torture, life in prison, and execution. Second-time offenders are automatically executed,
- Same-sex marriage, relationships, and civil unions are illegal in Saudi Arabia.
- Cross-dressing and transgenderism are illegal in Saudi Arabia. Punishments range from fines and deportation to torture, life in prison, and execution.
- Advocating for and promoting LGBT rights is illegal in Saudi Arabia.
- Creating, distributing, or watching homosexual pornography is illegal.
- Creating, distributing, or watching movies that feature LGBT themes and/or LGBT characters is illegal. Foreign movies that feature those those things are either censored and shown in cinemas without the scenes, or banned from the kingdom entirely.
- Anti-discrimination laws in employment, in the provision of goods and services, and in other areas simply do not exist [4].
=Religious Freedom=
Saudi Arabia has less religious freedom than any other country on Earth. Freedom of religion practically does not exist in Saudi Arabia.
- Sharia law applies to all residents of Saudi Arabia, regardless of their religion. This directly violates the freedom of religion of all non-Muslim residents of Saudi Arabia.
- All Saudi citizens and children born to Muslim fathers are required to be Muslim by law. Apostasy, or leaving Islam for another religion, is punishable by death. Attempting to convert a Muslim into another religion is also punishable by death.
- Saudi Arabia is the worst country for an atheist to live in. Atheists are considered terrorists through a royal decree of the Saudi Interior Ministry.
- Saudi Arabia engages in discrimination based on religion. Non-Muslims are prohibited from entering the holy cities of Mecca and Medina.
- Non-Muslim religious activities are illegal in Saudi Arabia. Non-Muslim buildings of worship, like Churches and Synagogues, are illegal and are forbidden from being built.
- Promoting religions other than Islam and distribution of non-Muslim religious materials is illegal. Wearing a cross or religious dress in public is prohibited. You are not allowed to bring the Bible or any other religious texts into the country.
- The Islamic branch of Ahmadiyya is illegal in Saudi Arabia. Followers of this Islamic branch are forbidden from entering the country.
- Blasphemy is punishable by death in Saudi Arabia.
- Witchcraft and sorcery are prohibited by law. This only shows the backwardness and religious intolerance of Saudi Arabia. How can a 21st century government still seriously believe that witchcraft and sorcery exist [5]?
=Freedom of Speech=
Freedom of speech and freedom of the press do not exist in Saudi Arabia.
- The government actively censors all forms of the press. Whether the news agency being censored is independent or not does not matter; the agency gets censored by the government anyway.
- Critisizing Islam and the government is illegal in Saudi Arabia.
- The Saudi regime assassinates dissidents and opposition members. One example is Jammal Kashoggi, who was murdered by Saudi agents in Turkey simply because of his opposition to the Saudi government.
- Possessing, distributing, or watching all forms of pornography is illegal. And yes, pornography falls under freedom of speech [6].
=Racism and Anti-Semitism=
Both the government and the people of Saudi Arabia are extremely racist and anti-Semitic. Below are examples of Saudi Arabia's blatant racism and anti-Semitism.
- Saudi Arabian government and religious officials often claim that Jews are planning to take over the world. They frequently cite the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as their source, even though the Protocols are a fake anti-Semtic document which was used by the Nazis to further their agenda.
- People with Israeli passports or Israeli stamps in their passport are banned from entering Saudi Arabia.
- Saudi textbooks call Jews apes, claim that Jews worship the Devil, and encourage students to avoid and murder Jews for Allah. Textbooks also say similar things about Christians and non-Wahhabi Muslims.
- A Saudi government newspaper claimed that violence and hatred against Jews is justifiable [10].
I will finish this section off with some quotes from a popular Saudi Arabian religious leader, Abdul Rahman Al-Sudais, who is the imam of the Grand Mosque of Mecca and also a government official. Here they are:
"The worst of the enemies of Islam are those whom he made [into] monkeys and pigs: the aggressive Jews and oppressive Zionists and those that follow them... monkeys and pigs and worshippers of false Gods who are the Jews and the Zionists." [10]
"[Jews are] evil offspring, infidels, distorters of words, calf-worshippers, prophet-murderers, prophecy-deniers... the scum of the human race whom Allah cursed and turned into apes and pigs..." [10]
Nuff said.
=Other Human Rights Abuses=
- TORTURE: While torture is technically illegal in Saudi Arabia, in practice torture is often used to obtain confessions of guilt. The Saudi Arabian government has tortured both Saudi Arabian and foreign citizens [7][8].
- CAPITAL PUNISHMENT: Saudi Arabia executes people for such laughable crimes like drug use, apostasy, adultery, and witchcraft. In 2016, fourty-seven people were executed for protesting against the government [9]. This mass execution was widely condemned by governments and human rights organizations worldwide.
- And much, much more. However, all of Saudi Arabia's human rights abuses will simply not fit into a 30,000-word argument, so let's move on.
============
SAUDI ARABIAN SPONSORING OF TERRORISM
Saudi Arabia sponsored and continues to sponsor terrorist organizations such as the Taliban, Al-Qaeda, and Al-Nusra [12].
A declassified top secret report from the United States Department of the Treasury found that a Saudi charity, run largely by members of the Saudi Royal Family, supported terrorist organizations from the early 1990s until 2006 [13]. This means the 9/11 attacks could have been sponspored and orchestrated by the government of Saudi Arabia. This is further supported by the fact that 15 of the 19 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia [14].
The violence in Afghanistan and Pakistan is largely funded by wealthy Saudi Arabians whose governments do little to stop them. In fact, multiple U.S. Dept. of State diplomatic cables accuse Saudi Arabia of funding Islamic terrorism worldwide [14].
============
CONCLUSION
Saudi Arabia is the most evil nation-state on the planet. It is a Medieval absolute monarchy run by a guy who says he completely owns the entire country. It executes people for being homosexual, having sex outside of marriage, protesting against the Saudi government, and leaving or critisizing the religion of Islam. Saudi Arabia is deeply prejudiced, sexist, racist, homophobic, and anti-Semitic. Saudi Arabian spies assassinate foreign residents simply because they dare to critisize the performance of the govenrment. They are an absolute totalitarian hellhole which terrorizes its citizens and supports Islamic terrorism worldwide. Saudi Arabia even prohibits witchcraft and sorcery, which only further proves that it is an evil, barbaric regime stuck in the Middle Ages. And despite all of those crimes against humanity, Saudi Arabia pretends to be tolerant and is very friendly with the West! Saudi Arabia is run by the most disgusting, criminal, and oppresive regime on Earth.
Over to Con. Whew, that was a lot of writing and even more research!
============
SOURCES
[5] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Saudi_Arabia#Restrictions_on_religious_freedom
[7] - https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/saudi-arabia/report-saudi-arabia/
[8] - https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/02/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-torture-american-citizen.html
Round 3
Round 4
Pro
#7
Extend my arguments, this is terrible conduct.
Don't you hate it when you decide to argue a very important topic, put a lot of work and research into it, and then a newcomer accepts the debate and dissapears from the website right after?
Con
#8
My opponent has conceded in this thread: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/2534/goodbye-everyone
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:
Pro participated in the debate.
Pro provided sources whereas con did not.
Both spelled just fine.
Both forfeited some rounds.
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:
Pro was the only debater to make a proficient argument, offer any sources, and forfeited slightly less. S and G was fine for both.
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:
rfd in comments
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:
Ramshutu was allowed to tie a vote on a debate where my opponent conceded. Maybe get a fucking grip or something?
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:
Full forfeit
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:
Pro actually provided an argument
Big oof
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:
See comments:
https://www.debateart.com/debates/1217/comment_links/19545
Gist:
From various direct human rights abuses to outright sponsoring terrorism, SA was proven to be highly immoral and wicked. There was no counter case, con forfeited for over a month (60% of the debate I might add)...
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:
Only one person gave arguments for the contention in the debate. That was TheAtheist.
He is also the only person to use evidence that pertained to the debate at hand. Whether it be dress code, terrorism and abortion.
TheAtheist forfeited 2 rounds while Mharman forfeited 3 rounds while also for 5 rounds giving no argument or rebuttals.
I am giving conduct to Pro because Mharman could've given an argument an rebutted if we go by his last two active rounds he was there and submitted words but he didn't. He also forfeited earlier which gave nothing for TheAtheist to rebut.
people have been forfeiting a lot
Firstly, yes. If you extend the idea that love matters most out to social issues, it can easily become a non-economic thing too. The problem is that both Wings begin to defy their economic principle when they become socially like that, for the reasons I already stated in previous posts here as well as others you can imagine.
When you blackmail people to share, the ones blackmailing them can become tyrannical yes. That immediately means your society isn't truly Left-Wing. When you have the rich (who were cunning, smart, hard-working) lead, they favour their offspring and close buddies and soon the system is no longer based on the strong and smart preying on the weak and dumb respectively... It's just favouritism and Illuminati.
so it's an economic thing
Far Left is everyone shares everything with everyone as much as possible.
Far Right is everyone fights with everyone, takes what they can and if possible scams people as much as they can if the people are stupid enough to fall for it, then they deserve to be ridden of that wealth.
The fundamental philosophy of the Left Wing is that nothing matters more than love. The fundamental philosophy of the Right Wing is that nothing matters more than greed.
Both are toxic in practise, the Left Wing is clearly more adorable in concept.
K, so what makes far left and far right then if it isn't tyranny vs anarchy
Saudi Arabia is not exactly Fascist but that's because it's not fully Sharia Law either, people don't realise this. Saudi is a corporate bordello that masquerades as Fascist (yes that's right, it pretends to be Fascist). Google it to understand.
https://nationsofns.fandom.com/wiki/Corporate_Bordello
I agree with you Conservatives that the left-wing are wrong to call Fascism 'far-right'. Fascism is not far-right because it defies right-wing concepts like allowing the oppressed to climb the ladder freely and such. I disagree with you that bigger government = left-wing. Bigger government = more beaureacratic, which actually has nothing to do with either Tyranny or Anarchy. Social Democracies are generally the biggest governments in the world and are left-leaning but overall Centrist.
and government tyranny then should be far left
Maybe I'm misinformed, I've been told when governments become too big that makes them far left, but when they're too small then they're far right.
Fascism is right-leaning centrist Tyranny. Communism that's been done (not as it was intended) is nothing at all in terms of wings. It literally is self-imploding and I'll explain why. It is wingless Tyranny that is not left-wing because it's run by elite against elitism (that makes no sense, I know).
Anarchism is impossible. You do not ever have anarchy, ever. I will prove this to you if you want.
Right is referring to conservatives, while left is referring to liberals but it's also used to classify governments, Anachism is on the far right, while Fascism and Communism are on the far left.
I usually don't comment on these kinds of things, but what does "Right" and "Left" mean?
Is it political like Republican and Democrat? Is it designating types of world views such as Right for limited government and Left for expanded government? Is it conservative vs liberal, or what?
It seems like everyone has some type of definition, but we attack each other without recognizing what they are.
To Truth!
-logicae
What about Iran?
Islam is far left???? HAHAHAHAHAH I CANNOT!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA YOU MADE ME DO A DR. FRANKLIN ON YOU!
Shouldn't accept debates you can't finish.
Islam is far left
What do you expect from such a far-right nation? Let me guess, Mharman will bring NK and call it Communist to then say the left wing is evil. Yeah, see, the thing is NK is not left-wing it is actually a centrist tinpot dictatorship tyranny.
Looking forward to how this debate unravels